Former All Blacks assistant John Plumtree has revealed he made a mistake taking the job offered to him by Ian Foster following the 2019 Rugby World Cup.

The 61-year-old agreed to become New Zealand’s forwards coach, but he was sacked from this role in 2022 following the home series defeat by Ireland. Plumtree was one of two assistant coaches sacrificed by Foster, who went on to lead the All Blacks to the final at the 2023 World Cup.

Replaced by Jason Ryan, Plumtree returned to South Africa to take up his next opportunity, taking over at the Sharks for the second time. However, that position ended last December and he has now reflected on an eventful coaching career, including his short-lived time with Foster’s All Blacks.

Plumtree coached the New Zealand forwards in 24 Test matches, but a record of 16 wins, one draw and seven losses was deemed not good enough after Andy Farrell’s Ireland fought back from 0-1 down to win the 2022 series 2-1.

“I hadn’t done a lot of coaching in that space…”

Still living in South Africa following his departure from the Sharks, Plumtree has now revisited his time with the All Blacks. Appearing on Coaching Culture with Ben Herring, he revealed something he claimed not to have said to anyone before – that taking up Foster’s offer to coach New Zealand’s forwards was a mistake.

“When I went to the All Blacks, I was a head coach at the Hurricanes and I was coaching mainly the defence,” he explained. “When I went to the All Blacks, I was asked to do the forwards and I was probably just a little bit behind in my knowledge of the forward play.

“It wasn’t so much that (lack of knowledge), it was just that I hadn’t done a lot of coaching in that space. The knowledge is there, but I just really hadn’t done a lot of coaching.

“Then covid hit and it made it a bit more difficult and it’s really the first time I’ve sort of told this story. The learning out of it for me was being the best that you can be for the team that you’re coaching and where you feel the most value.”

Plumtree worked as Joe Schmidt’s forwards coach during his first season in charge of Ireland, but an offer to assist the Super Rugby Hurricanes tempted him back to New Zealand where he had a different assistant role before eventually becoming their head coach.

“Chris Boyd wanted me to coach the defence, and I should have stayed as the defence coach because it was an area of the game that I was really starting to specialise my coaching in. In hindsight, maybe going into the All Blacks as a forwards coach might have been a mistake that I probably regret a little bit now. You’re pretty much the first guy I’ve ever said that to.

“I’ve coached the forwards before. I’d coached the Sharks forwards, coached the Irish forwards, but the reality was that I spent a lot of time coaching the defence. That was where all my thinking went into…

“But let’s face it, it’s the national team, so I was keen to coach the All Blacks. I love the All Blacks, I still love the All Blacks, but I just backed myself to do it, like you’ll back yourself to play seven and you’ll back yourself to play six, you back yourself to be a good jumper.

“So I don’t regret anything as such; I loved my time with that team. The outcome didn’t turn out the way I wanted it to, but hey, that’s life. What can you do about it? It’s done.

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“But there were learnings for me to take out of it, and there were also good learnings for me in terms of going forward around appointing my coaches and making sure that they are the best in their roles.”

Asked what the most noticeable difference was between coaching at Test level compared to club, Plumtree said: “The thing I noticed when I was coaching Ireland was that you don’t do a lot of coaching because you’re actually doing a lot of selecting.

“We would be following the Irish teams. Joe (Schmidt) and I, and Les (Kiss) would be following the Irish teams, selecting the Irish teams for the Six Nations and then coaching in your working weeks with them, building up to a Test match.

“You get less time with the players, so you have got to be really, really good at what you do with that time, and that’s probably the skill of coaching international rugby.

“That was one of the things, Joe and I were doing a lot of driving around Ireland together. We got to know each other pretty well. A lot of stories. A great storyteller. So yeah, I loved it with them, and the All Blacks was a different job.”